Thanos Tokakis in “A” / There is no humor if there is no self-sarcasm

We met with him Thanos Tokaki somewhere in Chalandri, driving his camera lens Pavlou Paraskeva and our conversation in one of those wonderful “urban groves” full of trees and bird sounds, creating a wonderful setting for our meeting. Cause and reason the monologue “Nothing (a painful story)” which he directs and stars in and which continues his sold out theatrical run in Basement of the Theater of the New World. And of course our conversation started with the show and its very special title, to get to its essence, to lead us back to his past and the era of “Fifty Fifty” and bring us back to the present and his multiples qualities, even in that of the teacher. After his short film “Tokakis or What’s my name”, which received several awards, with the same persistent self-mocking mood, Thanos Tokakis continues his creative activity in a quiet but loud way. Smiling, open, honest and creatively present in the now, he allowed us with an openness in his words to get to know him a little better. Almost whole. This is Thanos Tokakis.

Interview with Christos Tzifa

Photos for Avgi: Pavlos Paraskevas

Tell me a little about this very special show title.

The American title is “Thom Pain (based on nothing)”. I wanted a title that was related to the story but at the same time had sarcasm and humor and that’s how it happened “Nothing (a painful story)”. Nothing at all would be different. Parentheses are very important to me.

Is there a need to mock a seriousness that exists in the theater?

This irony has to do with self-mockery. It is not directed outward but inward. It’s a self-irony. I want to “reassure” the audience and tell them “don’t worry, theater is something we don’t need to worry about”. And that’s what the character wants to do too.

Is theater too “serious”?

I think theater is serious and not serious. And he suffers from “seriousness”. My own way of communicating things at least has a humorous surface that screams underneath. He has a cry, a pain. This is my own view on life, and therefore also on the theater.

Where are you alone on stage?

It’s wonderful. I sound like a misanthrope, but I needed it. I like it a lot. I’m okay with myself. Many people are scared, because we live in the time when we can’t stand ourselves. Me too many times, but I try to find them and find me. Theater is self-flagellation that takes you forward. Things that I couldn’t stand as a person and as an actor, I put them through the show.

In a more “lonely” job is gambling more stressful?

Of course, because I have nowhere to be caught or to blame. It’s also a show where I made the viewer be able to show me their displeasure. I thought about it later and it still bothers me, but I needed to get over it as much as I could. I admire these livers of people and actors who can ignore the negative influence. I didn’t have it, I’m living it now and I’m trying to overcome it.

Were you vulnerable to negative reviews?

Vulnerable to anything negative that can come from someone. This feeling that not everyone likes us always bothers me. In theory of course it seems funny to me, in practice and when you go to share something and eat the rejection it is not something easily manageable.

You made a really big splash in the limelight of this job and then you kind of fell away.

My first jobs were in television, so I started with this strong showing of “Fifty Fifty” and everything that happened then. I didn’t know what was going on, how the whole thing worked. That’s definitely where I first felt what I like and what I don’t like, where I can put limits on journalists, on myself, on other people, on this whole system. Little by little I learned it and I’m still learning it. It took me a long time to get over it but I realized that I don’t need to do anything beyond what my body can handle growing up. That’s as far as I can go. Nor do I judge someone who does something else. There is no right and wrong, neither in this job nor in this life. Everyone what they can and as much as they can.

How do you reward yourself? When do you start giving him a thumbs up?

Oh, what you say is something that has been bothering me all these years, because I think that sometimes I have found the answer, but in the end it is never true and I think that now and with this monologue I understood that you have to have faith in a very your own path and road. Because heteroidentification can be very dangerous in relation to what we live. Because we live in a society that is somewhat dangerous in relation to how you present yourself. With this show I have pretty much found my base and the way I want to proceed from here on.

TV, say, would you do it again?

Yeah, it has nothing to do with that. I can do anything. And I might have done something just for the money. I don’t think it’s bad for someone to do it either. Whether you’re playing in a theater where you do a monologue or you’re doing something too commercial where you feel like you’re selling yourself out for some money, there’s a cost. From all points of view. There will always be a cost. And that’s what I’m dealing with with the show. My play deals with the concept of happiness. There is no life without pain and without sorrow. We seek with the Western way of thinking to find happiness without pain, without sorrow. That does not exist . With the pain, the sadness, the joy, with all these we simply walk, with them. We put them in our pockets and move on. What nature gives you, it takes back. You will fall madly in love and madly hurt. I think this is the shape of human life and I am relieved by that.

I had registered you in my mind in a completely comical way. Now you bring out a more melancholic side of me.

The humor that I like, that I advocate and want to follow, is a very bitter humor that comes from an existential cry and pain. But he comes out with humor. There is no humor without self-mockery. In my show I don’t lift a finger in my film either. The first thing I do is put myself inside this rot so I can make fun of it.

In some of your interviews, I detected a mania for being asked about Philippides, because you played together, and about Lignadis, who was your teacher. Did that pressure you?

Unfortunately, that’s what was selling at the time. We go after everything he sells and anyone we think can talk to us about it. I had given an interview then and I was talking about my work and I remember that the journalist characteristically stopped the interview and said to me: “But I have to make a headline. You have to tell me something to get a title.” It was a little scary, the truth is.

Does the tension that something you will say or do can get you anxious?

It scares me. At some point, I realized, when we were improvising, I would always go and sit on the stage but in the corner. But always trying to get attention. I think that’s how I am in my life too. I go to the corner and try to get attention. The focus scares me personally. The fact that someone writes something on Facebook and it becomes a disaster seems inconceivable to me. I can’t handle it.

Civil marriage is now the law of the state for everyone.

These are obvious things. It should be self-explanatory. It’s obviously not, unfortunately. Here came a photo for her documentary Elina Psykou and one party made an inquiry to the Parliament for an insult. It saddens me. People should be free to do whatever they want. If we don’t champion this infamous equality, then where are we going? There is a neoconservatism beyond the old conservatism that we carry, unfortunately, with the new kids.

How do you rate yourself as a teacher?

I judge myself by what I get and not by what I give. Teaching is a terribly difficult thing. There are some people who are waiting for you to learn and the difficulty is to lower yourself, not to think that you are something special, because this process involves an exchange, whoever you have in front of you.

You manage;

I fight it, yes. Many times my “I” can be big and doesn’t allow me. It’s so big and he’s like, “No, you’re huge, a giant” (laughs). I am grounded when I see people across from me that we can get to the bottom of. I care about the result and not about them coming out and saying how good I was. This is also nice, but the bottom line is that we have gone a step further not only in relation to acting but in life.

Do you think the big “I” are responsible for all that was heard?

When you are a teacher or a director, it is very easy to display bossy attitudes. Of course, it also depends on the person. There is someone who knows and someone who does not know. One is the teacher and one is the student. This is a very old perception and not mine. The first thing I want to convey to the children is that we are equal. In a job we are all equal. It can’t be Bob Wilson and Coppola! At work you are an actor, a co-creator of a film or a work of art. We are not going to do the director’s whim. Because life and art itself surpasses us. We have a goal. That’s what we’re losing. It’s a play, a movie. This is our goal. We are co-creators of this situation. We must enter into the process of co-creation. This is the most difficult in the mental process.

Did you achieve this oldest mentality or did you escape it?

I achieved a little this older culture. Imagine that when we were dating, actors weren’t supposed to direct. There was this feeling that the director will do whatever he likes and you will do whatever he tells you. That was the line. Then a new generation came out little by little that brought a bit of ups and downs and we followed and took a bit of a turn.

What is your relationship with this city?

She is complex. This city actually represents this country a bit. Where do I start? (laughs). I’m not even a Philhellenic, the truth is (laughs). Things are getting worse and worse. The people are the city and the people are the problem. From the man who wants to get married and we don’t want it to the level of communication between people in this town is problematic. And the ego grows. This scares me. I feel with the city what Tsarouhis has said about Greece, that it is a very beautiful scenery with very bad actors.